{"id":4312,"date":"2021-02-10T09:38:17","date_gmt":"2021-02-10T16:38:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/?p=4312"},"modified":"2021-02-10T09:38:17","modified_gmt":"2021-02-10T16:38:17","slug":"relationship-interview-9","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/archives\/4312","title":{"rendered":"Relationship Interview #9"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

This is the sequel to Relationship Interview #8.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

For their fifth official date since\nmeeting through Find The One, a relationship web site, Bernice comes for\nbreakfast at Mark\u2019s house on a sunny morning in early March and brings her\nfriends Marlene and Angela, both of whom also attended Date #4. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice is fifty-seven and manages a\ntheatre company. Mark is sixty-four and edits how-to books and murder mysteries.\nMarlene is sixty, French, an artist and actor, and Angela is sixty-three, an\naccountant originally from New Jersey. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

They gather on Mark\u2019s backyard\nterrace, and because the pandemic is still raging, the women, who are in a\nbubble together, sit at one table and Mark sits at another. They keep their\nmasks on until Mark serves the pancakes and coffee, and when everyone is\nseated, they remove their masks. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Here we are together again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: I\u2019m so happy we are. Things\nended too abruptly yesterday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: I\u2019m happy, too. You make\nvery good coffee, Mark. Many people don\u2019t, you know. They think they do, but\nthey don\u2019t. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I try to buy the freshest\nbeans. Maybe that\u2019s the trick.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I love these pancakes. Old\nfamily recipe?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: No that\u2019s a recent acquisition\nfrom my friend Denise. She\u2019s gluten free and these use millet and sorghum and\ntapioca flour.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: So delicate. Are you gluten\nfree? I could not do without my French bread.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I\u2019m experimenting. Less wheat\nseems to suit me. Less lots of things seem to suit me these days as I ramble\nthrough my sixties.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: I know what you mean. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

They\nchat a while more about dietary matters before Mark steers the conversation in\nanother direction.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So last night when Bernice\ncame by, we spoke of friendship and she mentioned the rules of friendship. And\nI wonder what those are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I meant how friends treat\neach other differently than people in relationships often treat each other. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I sense<\/em> what you mean, but I\u2019m unclear about how friendship rules\ndiffer from relationship rules.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: They shouldn\u2019t. That\u2019s what\nruins most relationships. They don\u2019t treat each other like friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: The two times in my life I\nmarried, I chose men I assumed were my friends. But once we were married, they\nseemed to forget we were separate people. They began to take offense at things\nI liked and what I said and what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go, and\nthey could not see how they were trying to make me into some kind of female\necho of them. So I got out of those marriages and have not been tempted to\nmarry again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I would never tell Marlene\nor Angela what they should do with their lives or how they should dress or what\nthey should or shouldn\u2019t like. But that\u2019s what people in relationships do to\neach other all the time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So would one rule be: Never Criticize\nEach Other?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Yes, because we must accept\nour friends for who they are. We like them as they are. That\u2019s why we chose them\nto be our friend and they chose us, not because we want to change them into\nsomeone else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Something happens to people\nwhen they identify as a couple instead of as two individuals, as if they\nbelieve they own the other person now. Doesn\u2019t happen to everybody, but it\nhappens to lots of people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: It happened to my ex-husband.\nAfter we got married, he absolutely thought he owned me and he was constantly\ntrying to make me adhere to his idea of how things should be. And I put up with\nthat for nineteen years until our daughter graduated from high school, and then\nit was divorce him or die. And I\u2019m not exaggerating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So\u2026 No Owning Each Other would\nbe another rule of friendship.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: No owning each other and no\nbeing cruel to each other and no hiding things from each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: And no being afraid of each\nother.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Why would you be friends\nwith someone you feared? You could never be yourself. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Why would you marry<\/em> someone you feared, as so many\npeople do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Because the rules governing\nmarriage and the rules governing friendships aren\u2019t the same rules. They should\nbe, but they aren\u2019t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Even now? In the so-called\nadvanced societies?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Did your marriages follow\nthe rules of friendship?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: No. My marriages followed the\nrules of addict and enabler, I the enabler.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Mine, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Have you ever been in a\nrelationship with someone who was also your friend?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: No, but I\u2019m only sixty-four. Surely\nthere\u2019s still time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Theoretically, but maybe\nnot. Maybe just the fact that you\u2019re still actively pursuing a relationship\nmeans you\u2019re not looking for a friend. You\u2019re looking for a mate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I can\u2019t look for both in the\nsame person?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: You can. You are. I\u2019m just\nsaying you might not find them because<\/em>\nyou\u2019re looking for both.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Are you suggesting I stop\nlooking?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: No. I\u2019m suggesting I<\/em> stop looking. That\u2019s why I said I wanted to be your friend with the rules of friendship. That\u2019s the gift you gave me, Mark. You let me play out my usual neurotic bullshit in relation to a man who also happens to be a fine human being, with both of us constrained by the pandemic, so I could finally understand that until I can be totally comfortable with you as my friend, there\u2019s no point in trying to have a relationship with you. I\u2019ll just revert to my old patterns, and the pretense of a healthy relationship will vanish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Oh but not this<\/em> time, Bernice. This time will be\ndifferent. I\u2019m not like those other guys. I\u2019m something special. I\u2019m your\nknight in shining armor. I\u2019ll be your best friend and<\/em> your dream lover and<\/em>\nyour muse, and while I\u2019m at it I\u2019ll give you the secret to eternal life and the\nfive sure ways to make a million dollars with no up-front investment. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The\nwomen laugh.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: You\u2019re a good cook, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Friends don\u2019t want anything\nfrom their friends except to be appreciated for who they are. If a person wants\nmore than this from you\u2026 beware.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Friends help each other.\nThey don\u2019t hinder.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Do they judge each other?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Of course. We\u2019re human. But\nthen we stop judging because this is our friend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Unless we think they\u2019re\ngoing terribly wrong or doing something self-destructive. Then we\u2019ll say\nsomething. We\u2019ll intervene as lovingly as we can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: What about sex?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: What about<\/em> sex?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Well\u2026 it seems to me if we\neliminate sex or sexual desire from the equation, a relationship would be\nindistinguishable from friendship. I, for instance, could join your bubble and\nbe one of four people, not one man with three women. We could be four friends.\nBut if you and I became lovers, we would be a relationship and two women. Yes?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Yes, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Even if I was a friend of your\ntroika for years and years, the minute I became lovers with one of you, or for\nthat matter the minute two of you became lovers, then the equation would\nchange, because in this society relationships outweigh friendships.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Maybe so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Not maybe. Yes, they do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: They shouldn\u2019t, but they do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So then applying the rules of\nfriendship to a relationship will make the relationship better, but it will\nalter all pre-existing friendships. And that, it seems to me, is tragic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Not necessarily. If you and\none of my friends are happy in a relationship, my friendship may be altered but\nnot degraded, and I would gain you as a friend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Friends want their friends\nto be happy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: Amen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: The truth is, close\nfriends, friends like the three of us, are<\/em>\nin a relationship, only without sex. We didn\u2019t ask anyone else to be in our\nbubble, though we all have other friends. So the difference is not as distinct\nas you imply.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I\u2019m not implying anything. I\u2019m\ntrying to understand how I might be in a relationship with someone in an\nintimate trio such as yours while abiding by the rules of friendship. How would\nthat work?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: We can\u2019t know until we\nbecome friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: You and I? Or all four of us?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: You and I in the context of\nall four of us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So now I\u2019m dating the three of\nyou?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Friends don\u2019t so much date\nas do things together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Friends spend time\ntogether, but we don\u2019t call it dating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: So are you inviting me to\nbecome a friend of your bubble?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I am inviting you to be my\nfriend. I won\u2019t speak for Marlene or Angela.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Based on this breakfast\nalone, I\u2019d love to be your friend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: I like you very much, Mark,\nand I would be happy to be your friend, though at the moment you are more\nBernice\u2019s friend than my friend, but I\u2019m enjoying getting to know you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: (looks at Bernice) So are you\nand I done dating?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I guess so. But not done\nbeing friends. If you want to keep being friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I do. Though this isn\u2019t how I\nimagined things evolving between us, but I much prefer it to never seeing you\nagain. (looks at Angela) And I really like you, Angela. (looks at Marlene) And\nI really like you, Marlene. So\u2026(raises coffee cup) here\u2019s to our nascent\nfriendships. May they mature into something wonderful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

They\nall raise their cups and drink.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: I love that you used the\nword nascent.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: So do I.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: He\u2019s such a poet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: (to Bernice) It may take me a\nwhile to stop focusing on you as the woman I desire. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Why stop? She\u2019s a lovely\nwoman.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Well so are you? Shall I focus\nmy desire on you, too?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: I don\u2019t know. I might like\nit. But I might not. I suppose it would depend on the quality of your focus.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: She would like it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: How could you not focus\nyour desire on her? She\u2019s gorgeous.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: (to Bernice) You\u2019re sweet\nto say so, darling.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: I\u2019m confused.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: (laughs) Welcome to my\nworld.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Shall we have lunch on\nSaturday at my house? It\u2019s supposed to be sunny and warm. Are you free, Mark?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Free as a bird. What can I\nbring?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: He makes a fabulous\nguacamole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: Oh bring that. I love\nguacamole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Yes, and I will make\nchicken enchiladas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: And I\u2019ll bring a salad and\nchips for the guacamole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: And I\u2019ll bring the tomato\nrice and refried beans.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: (gazes at Bernice) You want to\ncome here first and we\u2019ll walk over together?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bernice: I\u2019d love to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Marlene: Shall we say noon?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: Noon is perfect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: You know I have to tell you\nsomething, Mark. I don\u2019t know if you realize what an unusual man you are, but\nyou are. I keep thinking you\u2019re gonna just throw up your hands and say, \u2018Enough\nalready. I can\u2019t handle this. It didn\u2019t work. I\u2019ll go back to the web site and\nhunt for somebody else.\u2019 But you don\u2019t. You\u2019re open to what\u2019s happening, which\nis, of course, a testament to how much you like Bernice, but it\u2019s also a\ntestament to your resiliency and your curiosity and your openness and your\ngoodness. You\u2019re really a good person, and that\u2019s why I said I would love to be\nyour friend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mark: (puts a hand on his heart)\nThank you Angela. Imagine me hugging you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Angela: (laughs) I do. And it\u2019s nice.\nYou\u2019re a good hugger. I knew you would be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

fin<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Just Love<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This is the sequel to Relationship Interview #8. For their fifth official date since meeting through Find The One, a relationship web site, Bernice comes for breakfast at Mark\u2019s house on a sunny morning in early March and brings her friends Marlene and Angela, both of whom also attended Date #4. Bernice is fifty-seven and […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[6467,6439,6470,6250,6472,6465,6469,6471,6468,6466,6473,9,33],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4312"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4312"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4312\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4314,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4312\/revisions\/4314"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4312"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4312"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/underthetablebooks.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4312"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}